Tomorrow Never Knows, basically might be the first outblown psychedelic rock song. See My Friends, Shapes of Things is at best proto-psychedelic rock. Since the song is psychedelic and it's over a repetitive groove with samples it has been compared to techno and more precise psychedelic techno, acid house and trance dance.
The Beatles were one of many bands were recording avant rock in 1966 and they were recording it before the Velvet Underground got to it in May of 1966.
Kraut-Rock Can Holger Kuzakay after hearing I Am The Walrus decided to form a band.
Could you explain to me Sean what song in April of 1966 was like this
Tomorrow Never Knows (Techno/Electronica/Kraut
Rock)
Combining swirling psychedelia with a repetitive melody, sampling and wicked sound effects,“Tomorrow Never Knows” could possibly be the first trance dance song. The Chemical Brothers didn’t take the drum track and bassline from this song for nothing.
1. The Beatles went the whole Indian classical on Love You To the Byrds never did.
2. I would not call songs like Day in the Life or Within You Without You as typical pop songs on 1967
3. No one invented Folk Rock ok it was already in the air in 1964. The Beatles stood out to the Byrds to go electric
4. Nowhere Man sounds like might have been ahead of the curve when it comes to pyschedelic rock to me
5. Scaruffi states A Hard Day's Night was feedback but there is no feedback on this song. I Feel Fine feedback was done intentionally
6. Scaruffi states that Hey Jude is a psychedelic blues jam which it's clearly not. Those were his words
7. I guess the Kinks and the Who were a blues based band which they were not
8. Yes it does matter Harrison played the sitar because it influenced Brian Jones to play that instrument and others also. Will you get your facts straight the Yardbirds version was released years after the Beatles Norwegian Wood. The Beatles deserve some credit at least at least they played the instrument. Ticket To Ride already shows the Indian basis of drone on read Revolution in the Head.
9. Everything is of musical influence nothing to do with cultural influence. Dylan statement was the Beatles were heading the direction in music
10. The Beatles established the leaderless selfcontained rock which is important. There might have been others who tried but the music industry wanted front man types. The Beatles established it as a norm.
You could be progressive and pop at the same time many bands have tried it inlcuding, Supertramp, ELO, Yes and even Rush. It's not as easy as you make it out to be. Strawberry Fields Forever is the perfect example.
The Beatles were just not a Merseybeat group have you heard of their early hard rock covers of Money That's What I Want or the use of distortion on It Won't Be Long and pounding twelve string work Any Time At All. To say the Beatles were just a part of Merseybeat is like saying the Beatles were another British Invasion Band.
Here are some qoutes from some progressive rockers
Robert Fripp www.progressiveears.com/frippbook/ch04.htm
He admired and wanted King Crimson to emulate the Beatles' proclivity for packing many strands of meaning into a song, so that a record could stand up to repeated listenings: "The Beatles achieve probably better than anyone the ability to make you tap your foot first time round, dig the words sixth time round, and get into the guitar slowly panning the twentieth time." Fripp wished Crimson could "achieve entertainment on as many levels as that
John Anderson of Yes. on the Beatles
Yeah. Serious might be the wrong word. Inventive or revolutionary might be better. We wanted to do something different because the Beatles did it, you know?. I wanted, personally, to go along that path of inventiveness and adventure in music. I didn't want to be a pop star, and I thought I was too old anyway. I wanted to be a musician surrounded by musicians that care. If that's serious then so be it. It wasn't like we said we're gonna be above everybody. It was more a willingness to investigate the potential of being in a rock 'n' roll band and basically stretch the imagination
Progressive Rock comes from many different types music not just jazz. For No One and Eleanor Rigby has classcial Influence, Tomorrow Never Knows has Indian, avant and musique concrete, Love You Too has straight up Indian Classical Music unlike the Byrds. She Said She Said has very progressive drumming and mix time signatures. We are talking about 1966 this is one step ABOVE THE Byrds Fifth Dimension. The fact is most of the progressive rockers that evolved like King Crimson and Yes were far more influenced by the Beatles than the Doors or the Byrds. The Beatles were both complicated and pop at the same time. Again you were the same person who did not know what a polyrhythm was so how do you know what complicated is. You have dismissed the Beatles influence on Progressive Rock for what reasons I don't know. In 65- 66 many bands were doing similiar things but it was the Beatles who knew how make it for everyone. That is why Revolver and Strawberry Fields Forever opened the doors for the future of progressive rock.
As for the Crickets if you include Buddy Holly they were dominated by a front man. The Beatles were not basically most British bands after them were not led by one person.
There was a poll of over 190 drummers in Rhythm Uk Drum Magazine the Beatles had three of the top 50 most influnetial drum albums of all time.
Correction it's 50's rock and roll not 50's rock. Rock and Roll became rock with songs like Tomorrow Never Knows OK. I like 50's music but even Dylan stated when he heard the Beatles for the first time he thought they were chord usage was unique. Their chord usage was way ahead of Chuck Berry but you see I am not Scarruffi head like you complicated music does not mean better.
Your statements don't come from a musicians point of view. I listen to songs Don't Bother Me or Not A Second Time and instantly you can hear the Beatles chords were more complicated than Berry or Holly. I think you need to listen before you speak.
Their so many points where Scaruffi is wrong about the Beatles it's irresponsible journalism.
1- He calls Love You Too vaguely oriental- correction it's Indian and it's not vaguely Indain far surpasses what the Byrds did
2- He says the Beatles stuck to three minute pop ditties in Sgt Pepper- correction Sgt Pepper had two songs over five minutes and Sgt Pepper/With A Little Help From My Frieds is played as one song goes over four minutes
3- He says the Beatles lucked into folk rock- correction the Beatles roots are skiffle which is folk influenced. Roger McGuinn cites the Beatles as inventing folk rock
4- He calls Nowhere Man timid pyschedelia- correction Psychedelic Rock was then invented by the Beatles becuase many people think the first psychedelic rock song was Eight Miles High recorded after the Beatles song
5- Calls the start of A Hard Day's Night as feedback- correction this was a really unique guitar sound but it was not feedback
6- Scaruffi called Hey Jude a psychedelic blues jam- correction this one made me laugh it's not remotely psychedelic it's just one of the greatest pop-rock records. McCartney even told Harrison he wanted no blues influence on this song.
7- Scaruffi claims the Beatles misrepresented the British Invasion scene- correction the British Invasion are acts that made it to America after the Beatles made it in America it did not matter which genre it was if it was Merseybeat the Kinks or blues rock based acts like the Yardbirds
8- He dismisses the Harrison use of sitar even though Jeff Beck never played one.
9- Scaruffi never gives the Beatles credit for influencing the Stones to write their own songs. The Byrds to go electric and for that manner Dylan and the Grateful Dead.
10- Scaruffi says that Buddy Holly pioneered the rock band concept- He forgets that Buddy Holly and the Crikets were dominated by Holly. Whereas the Beatles had no dominate frontman, concentrated on albums and were self contained.
Pre-Beatles, the vast majority of "local" bands in the U.S. were of the three-chord surf or frat-rock variety, complete with a sax player in many cases. Usually a lead singer and "back-up" musicians, too, and little in the way of harmonies.
The Beatles changed that model in several ways:
1) They had four lead singers (or three-and-a-half, anyway!) and no "front man" per se.
2) They were resolutely guitar-based -- The Crickets were the earlier model, but the memory of them had faded. Yeah, surf combos were too, but they were primarily instrumental. A lot of sax players found themselves out of work or learning a new instrument after The Beatles!
3) Harrison's guitar work also upped the ante for guitar players, who heretofore contented themselves mostly with Chuck Berry-style leads.
4) Their emphasis on Everly Brothers- and girl group-influenced harmonies was another new element for local bands to come to grips with. In most cases, prior to this you had one lead singer with perhaps some Doo-Wop influenced backing vocals, and that was it.
Perhaps most important of all, those early Beatles tunes, with their unexpected chord changes and harmonies, significantly broadened the musical palette beyond the stock I-IV-V and I-vi-IV-V changes that most local bands dealt in.
I'm in the midst of reading a marvelous book entitled Songwriting Secrets of The Beatles by Dominic Pedler that goes into this musical revolution in exhaustive (yet very readable) technical detail.
I particularly appreciate the author's point of view that those who dismiss The Beatles' early work in favor of their later, more sophisticated productions are missing the boat. Even The Beatles' earliest songs showed a remarkable musical adventuresomeness that was unmatched by any of their contemporaries.
You underestimate the Beatles influence in so many ways Indian Music with rock is one example. Harrison at least played the sitar and the tamboura and merged it with rock music. It's laughable you dismiss the Beatles influence on Progressive Rock. Radiohead just on their last album said they thought it was as good as Revolver. Mike Portnoy considers Sgt Peppers the first progressive rock album.
I think Floydsyd explain things perfectly for you anyhow Dick Dale is known for playing his guitar backwards not sounding or recording backward guitar. Anyhow I have something for you to look at. The influence of the Beatles on Modern dance music. You Scaruffoids are so concern who exactly did what first. I am only pointing the Beatles were ahead of the curve or one of the first do these thing in rock music. Also for using tape loops in their experiments in rhythmic musique concrete was very innovative. Yes also were one of the first rock bands to experiments in tape loop based songs. I don't mean the mellotron though the Beatles use of it in a psychedelic way was also innovative. Something for you Scarrfoids.
The 50 Most Influential Records of All Times
Under the Influence - How This List Was Made
Muzik wanted to define the records that had shaped the music we love today. The music that made Basement Jaxx, The Chemical Brothers, Roni Size and System F all possible. Not necessarily the best records ever, although they were hardly going to be stinkers, but the ones which pushed forward a genre, or fused styles to create a new hybrid. The qualities we were looking for were:
Effect on today’s music - Originality
Fusing of existing genres to create new musical styles Music that changed the club scene as well as the sound.
Chosen and written by Ben Turner, Frank Tope, Rob da Bank, Calvin Bush, Dorian Lynskey, Tom Mugridge and Michael Bonner The most important music of the 20th Century. The records which have shaped the music we hear today, from trance to trip hop, from big beat to Basement Jaxx. Everything starts with these...
The Beatles “Tomorrow Never Knows” (EMI 1966)(Revolver L.P.)
James Brown “Funky Drummer” (King 1969)(7”)
Marvin Gaye “What’s Going On” (Motown 1970)(L.P.)
Incredible Bongo Band “Apache” (MGM 1973)(Bongo Rock L.P.)
Augustus Pablo “King Tubby Meets the Rockers Uptown” (Island 1976)(7”)
Double Exposure “Ten Per Cent” (Salsoul 1976)(12”)
Donna Summer “I Feel Love” (Casablanca 1977)(12”)
Kraftwerk “Trans Europe Express” (EMI 1977)(King Klang L.P.)
Grandmaster Flash “Adventure On the Wheels of Steel” (Sugarhill 1981)(12”)
Afrika Bambaataa “Planet Rock” (Tommy Boy 1982)(12”)
Sorry, but every one of these things are either meaningless or wrong.
Everything "experimental" the Beatles did was already done by another rock band, in a more extensive way, and in a less watered down context, before the Beatles. They just popularized these innovations.
That's is your opinion the Beatles were one of the most innovative rock bands in many people opinion.
The Beatles did not invent folk rock. Lots of bands before '65 had some songs which combined rock with some folk aspects or vice versa, the Beatles being one of them, but the Byrds invented the actual folk-rock style. The fact that the Byrds went electric because of the Beatles speaks to their popularity, not they're folk-rock-iness. The Byrds were influenced by the Beatles use of the 12-string Rickenbacker, but they proceeded to use it to make the jingle-jangle sound, which the Beatles didn't quite. Plus the band the Searchers preceeded both bands and influenced the Byrds.
Your wrong Roger McGuinn credits the Beatles for inventing folk rock and that's the reason the Bryds went electric
I Don't want to spoil the party is not a country rock song.
Gram Parsons calls this and I'll Cry Instead early country rock
The Yardbirds used feedback first, and being number one does not matter for these purposes.
The Beatles used intentional feedback on record on I Feel Fine before the Yardbirds or the Who.That's a fact
Ticket to Ride does not have a guitar drone at all. That is a total myth.
You are a clown there is guitar drone on this song. Do you you know what drone is.
Yesterday is not "chamber type rock" - it's not even rock - it's just a pop song with a chamber arrangement. Also she's a woman is not ska, jut r&b.
s
Eight Days a Week having a fade in is totally irrelevant. There's no need to value form over content in music. That's just a catchy tune, that's all.
It's Only Love does not have a leslie speaker. But it's useless to value songs for how they're made: it should be about how they sound. So it's more important to talk about how certain production effects allow for strange timbres. But they're not nearly as unique as other bands who didn't even use high tech studio means.
It's Only Love not only has guitar through a leslie speaker but it also uses a volume pedal.
Norweigan Wood was preceeded by See My Friends by 6 months (recorded in october vs. recorded in april). See My Friends is far more Indian droney. Also the Yardbirds used a sitar first, that february.
See My Friends is not the first song to use faux Indian drone, Ticket to Ride precedes it by more than two months. The Yardbirds only hired a session player to play a sitar that version was not released. Georgre Harrison on Norwegian plays sitar and that song is the first song released with sitar on it.
Donovan was writing hippy-themed songs before The Word. Dick Dale used backward tapes long before Rain and I'm Only Sleeping. But it doesn't matter anyway, because all that matters is how it sounds as a result (not the method). If they made a backward recording of a sample of another song, which unbeknowst to them, just so happened to be backwards itself, they'd have a forward (normal) sounding song, but people would still be praising that.
The first rock song to have backward vocals Rain, The first song to have backward guitar solos Tomorrow Never Knows
Taxman is not hard rock.
Taxman uses the distorted Hendrix chord a half year before Foxy Lady
Tomorrow Never Knows is basically a simple pop song with some effects. Wasn't the first with backward sounds or Indian droninig as I said before. Miki Dallon used tape loops much earlier. A tape loop is just a mechanism for repeating something - could have easily been done manually. Graham Bond used the mellotron much earlier. It's basically a machine that plays flute samples - no biggie and see my earlier comment about Leslie speakers.
Please you have no clue Tomorrow Never Knows with its tape loops or sampling over repetitve bass and drum sound was the future of modern dance music. Vocals through a leslie was innovation everyone copied after this song.
Love You To was definitely not the first raga-rock song. The Byrds and others preceeded them by several months and Love You To is shallow compared to them. Dr. Robert has no country aspects at all and the Grateful Dead came first anyway. Lots of rock songs had unusual-for-rock instruments before Elanor Rigby. All that matters is how the instruments sound, not what they are, so for example, (not to do with the song) if a violin is used to sound like a guitar, might as well have used a guitar. Elanor Rigby isn't really a rock song anyway.
Love You To is classical Indian with rock which is a lot different than faux Indian music the Byrds were doing. Doctor Robert is a country influenced psychedelic song there is country style licks on much of the song. Eleanor Rigby how many rock groups used no rock instruments, with vocals and a strong classical music influence
As great as it sounds, Revolver is just a polished pop-rock album with some already-tried experimental effects shallowly-added as window dressing.
It's much more pyschedelic than the Byrds Fifth Dimension. The Beatles were already messing with times signatures, using Indian ensemebles and using avant garde techniques.
Think for yourself uses "fuzz bass" - but big deal.
Lots of rock songs before Strawberry Fields made use of avant-garde classical music. Here's a rare case where they used it extensively and not just as decoration to a shallow pop song, but it doesn't compare to dozens upon dozens of songs recorded earlier by other groups.
Really give some examples of avant rock with classical music influence.
By the same token as the comment about Revolver, A Day in the Life is not prog, nor is Within you Without You. And eastern religious beliefs in rock where around for a whole year before that one.
Bill Bruford thinks this the Beatlse jumpstarted progressive rock. Many people think it's the first symphonic progressive rock song. That's right Love You To also deals with Eastern Religious beliefs
Regarding Sgt. Pepper, the no-long pauses, printed lyrics, and hidden track are completely irrelevant since they speak nothing of the content of the music. Lucy does not have phasing, that's Magical Mystery Tour, but the Small Faces beat them to it. Walrus is definitely a collage of all sorts of interesting effects, but that sample is barely audible and not important. There were plently of songs before All You Need is Love to have weird time signatures and hundreds of longer songs before Hey Jude the fact that they went number one does not speak to their creativity at all.
Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds has phasing and that was recorded before the Small Faces
For Revolution, check out the Sonics songs from almost for years earlier, and countless other psychedelic blues-rock songs from earlier in '68. Lots were punkier or heavier or whatever. Revolution #9 is not just composed of tape loops. The's all sorts of other stuff going on. And the fact that it's by a rock band means nothing. It's not some kind of avant-rock (which lots of bands had been doing dating back to '65, by the way), just pure avant garde, and should be compared with lots of tracks from up to 20 years earlier. It pales next to Stockhausen.
The Beatles were recording avant rock before the Velvet Underground
Happiness doesn't have polyrhythms.
Oh YES IT DOES IT'S CONSIDERED EARLY MATH ROCK
Savoy Truffle is a soul-ish pop song. That's all.
The song has distorted brass section with very distorted rock
There were a bunch of double albums before the White Album, and going number one is not relevant.
Just point the facts out it may not be relevant to you
There are like two dozen examples of synthesizers in rock before Abbey Road, often integral to the sound of musical pieces, wheres the Beatles just used it as a mildly intriguing production affect. Also, Abbey Road does not connect the songs with any technical wizardry. Just by having written connnected songs. And it wasn't the first to contain minisuites at all.
First it's your opinion if it's good or not. I am just pointing the different ways they applied it to different gneres. Much of the Abbey Road medleys were recorded as one song and it was McCartneys idea to have them connected.
[ reply to seanseansean ]
To everyone music evolves no one invents genres. The only things for certain is The Beatles started the British Invasion not really a music genre, Classic Rock many now consider it a genre. I agree with The Indian music in the true spirit with rock music. Other than that every thing is just opinions. There is no physical proof who did what first.
Tomorrow Never Knows could be the first alternative rock song but who knows. Who cares who invented Folk Rock, The Beatles, The Byrds and Bob Dylan were a big triangle. The ones who are knocking the Beatles are not musicians or just jealous.
Did Elvis invent rock and roll no, did the Kinks invent hard rock no, is Helter Skelter the first heavy metal song no. Did the Velvet Underground invent, alternative, experimental rock and punk hell no. The Beatles did experimental rock already, The Who and the Kinks could be considered first for being a punk rock first. Except for a few instances no particular artist invents whole genres, just ideas.
Tomorrow Never Knows, basically might be the first outblown psychedelic rock song. See My Friends, Shapes of Things is at best proto-psychedelic rock. Since the song is psychedelic and it's over a repetitive groove with samples it has been compared to techno and more precise psychedelic techno, acid house and trance dance.
The Beatles were one of many bands were recording avant rock in 1966 and they were recording it before the Velvet Underground got to it in May of 1966.
Kraut-Rock Can Holger Kuzakay after hearing I Am The Walrus decided to form a band.
Could you explain to me Sean what song in April of 1966 was like this
Tomorrow Never Knows (Techno/Electronica/Kraut
Rock)
Combining swirling psychedelia with a repetitive melody, sampling and wicked sound effects,“Tomorrow Never Knows” could possibly be the first trance dance song. The Chemical Brothers didn’t take the drum track and bassline from this song for nothing.
1. The Beatles went the whole Indian classical on Love You To the Byrds never did.
2. I would not call songs like Day in the Life or Within You Without You as typical pop songs on 1967
3. No one invented Folk Rock ok it was already in the air in 1964. The Beatles stood out to the Byrds to go electric
4. Nowhere Man sounds like might have been ahead of the curve when it comes to pyschedelic rock to me
5. Scaruffi states A Hard Day's Night was feedback but there is no feedback on this song. I Feel Fine feedback was done intentionally
6. Scaruffi states that Hey Jude is a psychedelic blues jam which it's clearly not. Those were his words
7. I guess the Kinks and the Who were a blues based band which they were not
8. Yes it does matter Harrison played the sitar because it influenced Brian Jones to play that instrument and others also. Will you get your facts straight the Yardbirds version was released years after the Beatles Norwegian Wood. The Beatles deserve some credit at least at least they played the instrument. Ticket To Ride already shows the Indian basis of drone on read Revolution in the Head.
9. Everything is of musical influence nothing to do with cultural influence. Dylan statement was the Beatles were heading the direction in music
10. The Beatles established the leaderless selfcontained rock which is important. There might have been others who tried but the music industry wanted front man types. The Beatles established it as a norm.
You could be progressive and pop at the same time many bands have tried it inlcuding, Supertramp, ELO, Yes and even Rush. It's not as easy as you make it out to be. Strawberry Fields Forever is the perfect example.
The Beatles were just not a Merseybeat group have you heard of their early hard rock covers of Money That's What I Want or the use of distortion on It Won't Be Long and pounding twelve string work Any Time At All. To say the Beatles were just a part of Merseybeat is like saying the Beatles were another British Invasion Band.
Here are some qoutes from some progressive rockers
Robert Fripp
www.progressiveears.com/frippbook/ch04.htm
He admired and wanted King Crimson to emulate the Beatles' proclivity for packing many strands of meaning into a song, so that a record could stand up to repeated listenings: "The Beatles achieve probably better than anyone the ability to make you tap your foot first time round, dig the words sixth time round, and get into the guitar slowly panning the twentieth time." Fripp wished Crimson could "achieve entertainment on as many levels as that
John Anderson of Yes. on the Beatles
Yeah. Serious might be the wrong word. Inventive or revolutionary might be better. We wanted to do something different because the Beatles did it, you know?. I wanted, personally, to go along that path of inventiveness and adventure in music. I didn't want to be a pop star, and I thought I was too old anyway. I wanted to be a musician surrounded by musicians that care. If that's serious then so be it. It wasn't like we said we're gonna be above everybody. It was more a willingness to investigate the potential of being in a rock 'n' roll band and basically stretch the imagination
Progressive Rock comes from many different types music not just jazz. For No One and Eleanor Rigby has classcial Influence, Tomorrow Never Knows has Indian, avant and musique concrete, Love You Too has straight up Indian Classical Music unlike the Byrds. She Said She Said has very progressive drumming and mix time signatures. We are talking about 1966 this is one step ABOVE THE Byrds Fifth Dimension. The fact is most of the progressive rockers that evolved like King Crimson and Yes were far more influenced by the Beatles than the Doors or the Byrds. The Beatles were both complicated and pop at the same time. Again you were the same person who did not know what a polyrhythm was so how do you know what complicated is. You have dismissed the Beatles influence on Progressive Rock for what reasons I don't know. In 65- 66 many bands were doing similiar things but it was the Beatles who knew how make it for everyone. That is why Revolver and Strawberry Fields Forever opened the doors for the future of progressive rock.
As for the Crickets if you include Buddy Holly they were dominated by a front man. The Beatles were not basically most British bands after them were not led by one person.
There was a poll of over 190 drummers in Rhythm Uk Drum Magazine the Beatles had three of the top 50 most influnetial drum albums of all time.
Correction it's 50's rock and roll not 50's rock. Rock and Roll became rock with songs like Tomorrow Never Knows OK. I like 50's music but even Dylan stated when he heard the Beatles for the first time he thought they were chord usage was unique. Their chord usage was way ahead of Chuck Berry but you see I am not Scarruffi head like you complicated music does not mean better.
Your statements don't come from a musicians point of view. I listen to songs Don't Bother Me or Not A Second Time and instantly you can hear the Beatles chords were more complicated than Berry or Holly. I think you need to listen before you speak.
Their so many points where Scaruffi is wrong about the Beatles it's irresponsible journalism.
1- He calls Love You Too vaguely oriental- correction it's Indian and it's not vaguely Indain far surpasses what the Byrds did
2- He says the Beatles stuck to three minute pop ditties in Sgt Pepper- correction Sgt Pepper had two songs over five minutes and Sgt Pepper/With A Little Help From My Frieds is played as one song goes over four minutes
3- He says the Beatles lucked into folk rock- correction the Beatles roots are skiffle which is folk influenced. Roger McGuinn cites the Beatles as inventing folk rock
4- He calls Nowhere Man timid pyschedelia- correction Psychedelic Rock was then invented by the Beatles becuase many people think the first psychedelic rock song was Eight Miles High recorded after the Beatles song
5- Calls the start of A Hard Day's Night as feedback- correction this was a really unique guitar sound but it was not feedback
6- Scaruffi called Hey Jude a psychedelic blues jam- correction this one made me laugh it's not remotely psychedelic it's just one of the greatest pop-rock records. McCartney even told Harrison he wanted no blues influence on this song.
7- Scaruffi claims the Beatles misrepresented the British Invasion scene- correction the British Invasion are acts that made it to America after the Beatles made it in America it did not matter which genre it was if it was Merseybeat the Kinks or blues rock based acts like the Yardbirds
8- He dismisses the Harrison use of sitar even though Jeff Beck never played one.
9- Scaruffi never gives the Beatles credit for influencing the Stones to write their own songs. The Byrds to go electric and for that manner Dylan and the Grateful Dead.
10- Scaruffi says that Buddy Holly pioneered the rock band concept- He forgets that Buddy Holly and the Crikets were dominated by Holly. Whereas the Beatles had no dominate frontman, concentrated on albums and were self contained.
Pre-Beatles, the vast majority of "local" bands in the U.S. were of the three-chord surf or frat-rock variety, complete with a sax player in many cases. Usually a lead singer and "back-up" musicians, too, and little in the way of harmonies.
The Beatles changed that model in several ways:
1) They had four lead singers (or three-and-a-half, anyway!) and no "front man" per se.
2) They were resolutely guitar-based -- The Crickets were the earlier model, but the memory of them had faded. Yeah, surf combos were too, but they were primarily instrumental. A lot of sax players found themselves out of work or learning a new instrument after The Beatles!
3) Harrison's guitar work also upped the ante for guitar players, who heretofore contented themselves mostly with Chuck Berry-style leads.
4) Their emphasis on Everly Brothers- and girl group-influenced harmonies was another new element for local bands to come to grips with. In most cases, prior to this you had one lead singer with perhaps some Doo-Wop influenced backing vocals, and that was it.
Perhaps most important of all, those early Beatles tunes, with their unexpected chord changes and harmonies, significantly broadened the musical palette beyond the stock I-IV-V and I-vi-IV-V changes that most local bands dealt in.
I'm in the midst of reading a marvelous book entitled Songwriting Secrets of The Beatles by Dominic Pedler that goes into this musical revolution in exhaustive (yet very readable) technical detail.
I particularly appreciate the author's point of view that those who dismiss The Beatles' early work in favor of their later, more sophisticated productions are missing the boat. Even The Beatles' earliest songs showed a remarkable musical adventuresomeness that was unmatched by any of their contemporaries.
You underestimate the Beatles influence in so many ways Indian Music with rock is one example. Harrison at least played the sitar and the tamboura and merged it with rock music. It's laughable you dismiss the Beatles influence on Progressive Rock. Radiohead just on their last album said they thought it was as good as Revolver. Mike Portnoy considers Sgt Peppers the first progressive rock album.
I think Floydsyd explain things perfectly for you anyhow Dick Dale is known for playing his guitar backwards not sounding or recording backward guitar. Anyhow I have something for you to look at. The influence of the Beatles on Modern dance music. You Scaruffoids are so concern who exactly did what first. I am only pointing the Beatles were ahead of the curve or one of the first do these thing in rock music. Also for using tape loops in their experiments in rhythmic musique concrete was very innovative. Yes also were one of the first rock bands to experiments in tape loop based songs. I don't mean the mellotron though the Beatles use of it in a psychedelic way was also innovative. Something for you Scarrfoids.
The 50 Most Influential Records of All Times
Under the Influence - How This List Was Made
Muzik wanted to define the records that had shaped the music we love today. The music that made Basement Jaxx, The Chemical Brothers, Roni Size and System F all possible. Not necessarily the best records ever, although they were hardly going to be stinkers, but the ones which pushed forward a genre, or fused styles to create a new hybrid. The qualities we were looking for were:
Effect on today’s music - Originality
Fusing of existing genres to create new musical styles Music that changed the club scene as well as the sound.
Chosen and written by Ben Turner, Frank Tope, Rob da Bank, Calvin Bush, Dorian Lynskey, Tom Mugridge and Michael Bonner The most important music of the 20th Century. The records which have shaped the music we hear today, from trance to trip hop, from big beat to Basement Jaxx. Everything starts with these...
The Beatles “Tomorrow Never Knows” (EMI 1966)(Revolver L.P.)
James Brown “Funky Drummer” (King 1969)(7”)
Marvin Gaye “What’s Going On” (Motown 1970)(L.P.)
Incredible Bongo Band “Apache” (MGM 1973)(Bongo Rock L.P.)
Augustus Pablo “King Tubby Meets the Rockers Uptown” (Island 1976)(7”)
Double Exposure “Ten Per Cent” (Salsoul 1976)(12”)
Donna Summer “I Feel Love” (Casablanca 1977)(12”)
Kraftwerk “Trans Europe Express” (EMI 1977)(King Klang L.P.)
Grandmaster Flash “Adventure On the Wheels of Steel” (Sugarhill 1981)(12”)
Afrika Bambaataa “Planet Rock” (Tommy Boy 1982)(12”)
Sorry, but every one of these things are either meaningless or wrong.
Everything "experimental" the Beatles did was already done by another rock band, in a more extensive way, and in a less watered down context, before the Beatles. They just popularized these innovations.
That's is your opinion the Beatles were one of the most innovative rock bands in many people opinion.
The Beatles did not invent folk rock. Lots of bands before '65 had some songs which combined rock with some folk aspects or vice versa, the Beatles being one of them, but the Byrds invented the actual folk-rock style. The fact that the Byrds went electric because of the Beatles speaks to their popularity, not they're folk-rock-iness. The Byrds were influenced by the Beatles use of the 12-string Rickenbacker, but they proceeded to use it to make the jingle-jangle sound, which the Beatles didn't quite. Plus the band the Searchers preceeded both bands and influenced the Byrds.
Your wrong Roger McGuinn credits the Beatles for inventing folk rock and that's the reason the Bryds went electric
I Don't want to spoil the party is not a country rock song.
Gram Parsons calls this and I'll Cry Instead early country rock
The Yardbirds used feedback first, and being number one does not matter for these purposes.
The Beatles used intentional feedback on record on I Feel Fine before the Yardbirds or the Who.That's a fact
Ticket to Ride does not have a guitar drone at all. That is a total myth.
You are a clown there is guitar drone on this song. Do you you know what drone is.
Yesterday is not "chamber type rock" - it's not even rock - it's just a pop song with a chamber arrangement. Also she's a woman is not ska, jut r&b.
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Eight Days a Week having a fade in is totally irrelevant. There's no need to value form over content in music. That's just a catchy tune, that's all.
It's Only Love does not have a leslie speaker. But it's useless to value songs for how they're made: it should be about how they sound. So it's more important to talk about how certain production effects allow for strange timbres. But they're not nearly as unique as other bands who didn't even use high tech studio means.
It's Only Love not only has guitar through a leslie speaker but it also uses a volume pedal.
Norweigan Wood was preceeded by See My Friends by 6 months (recorded in october vs. recorded in april). See My Friends is far more Indian droney. Also the Yardbirds used a sitar first, that february.
See My Friends is not the first song to use faux Indian drone, Ticket to Ride precedes it by more than two months. The Yardbirds only hired a session player to play a sitar that version was not released. Georgre Harrison on Norwegian plays sitar and that song is the first song released with sitar on it.
Donovan was writing hippy-themed songs before The Word. Dick Dale used backward tapes long before Rain and I'm Only Sleeping. But it doesn't matter anyway, because all that matters is how it sounds as a result (not the method). If they made a backward recording of a sample of another song, which unbeknowst to them, just so happened to be backwards itself, they'd have a forward (normal) sounding song, but people would still be praising that.
The first rock song to have backward vocals Rain, The first song to have backward guitar solos Tomorrow Never Knows
Taxman is not hard rock.
Taxman uses the distorted Hendrix chord a half year before Foxy Lady
Tomorrow Never Knows is basically a simple pop song with some effects. Wasn't the first with backward sounds or Indian droninig as I said before. Miki Dallon used tape loops much earlier. A tape loop is just a mechanism for repeating something - could have easily been done manually. Graham Bond used the mellotron much earlier. It's basically a machine that plays flute samples - no biggie and see my earlier comment about Leslie speakers.
Please you have no clue Tomorrow Never Knows with its tape loops or sampling over repetitve bass and drum sound was the future of modern dance music. Vocals through a leslie was innovation everyone copied after this song.
Love You To was definitely not the first raga-rock song. The Byrds and others preceeded them by several months and Love You To is shallow compared to them. Dr. Robert has no country aspects at all and the Grateful Dead came first anyway. Lots of rock songs had unusual-for-rock instruments before Elanor Rigby. All that matters is how the instruments sound, not what they are, so for example, (not to do with the song) if a violin is used to sound like a guitar, might as well have used a guitar. Elanor Rigby isn't really a rock song anyway.
Love You To is classical Indian with rock which is a lot different than faux Indian music the Byrds were doing. Doctor Robert is a country influenced psychedelic song there is country style licks on much of the song. Eleanor Rigby how many rock groups used no rock instruments, with vocals and a strong classical music influence
As great as it sounds, Revolver is just a polished pop-rock album with some already-tried experimental effects shallowly-added as window dressing.
It's much more pyschedelic than the Byrds Fifth Dimension. The Beatles were already messing with times signatures, using Indian ensemebles and using avant garde techniques.
Think for yourself uses "fuzz bass" - but big deal.
Lots of rock songs before Strawberry Fields made use of avant-garde classical music. Here's a rare case where they used it extensively and not just as decoration to a shallow pop song, but it doesn't compare to dozens upon dozens of songs recorded earlier by other groups.
Really give some examples of avant rock with classical music influence.
By the same token as the comment about Revolver, A Day in the Life is not prog, nor is Within you Without You. And eastern religious beliefs in rock where around for a whole year before that one.
Bill Bruford thinks this the Beatlse jumpstarted progressive rock. Many people think it's the first symphonic progressive rock song. That's right Love You To also deals with Eastern Religious beliefs
Regarding Sgt. Pepper, the no-long pauses, printed lyrics, and hidden track are completely irrelevant since they speak nothing of the content of the music. Lucy does not have phasing, that's Magical Mystery Tour, but the Small Faces beat them to it. Walrus is definitely a collage of all sorts of interesting effects, but that sample is barely audible and not important. There were plently of songs before All You Need is Love to have weird time signatures and hundreds of longer songs before Hey Jude the fact that they went number one does not speak to their creativity at all.
Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds has phasing and that was recorded before the Small Faces
For Revolution, check out the Sonics songs from almost for years earlier, and countless other psychedelic blues-rock songs from earlier in '68. Lots were punkier or heavier or whatever. Revolution #9 is not just composed of tape loops. The's all sorts of other stuff going on. And the fact that it's by a rock band means nothing. It's not some kind of avant-rock (which lots of bands had been doing dating back to '65, by the way), just pure avant garde, and should be compared with lots of tracks from up to 20 years earlier. It pales next to Stockhausen.
The Beatles were recording avant rock before the Velvet Underground
Happiness doesn't have polyrhythms.
Oh YES IT DOES IT'S CONSIDERED EARLY MATH ROCK
Savoy Truffle is a soul-ish pop song. That's all.
The song has distorted brass section with very distorted rock
There were a bunch of double albums before the White Album, and going number one is not relevant.
Just point the facts out it may not be relevant to you
There are like two dozen examples of synthesizers in rock before Abbey Road, often integral to the sound of musical pieces, wheres the Beatles just used it as a mildly intriguing production affect. Also, Abbey Road does not connect the songs with any technical wizardry. Just by having written connnected songs. And it wasn't the first to contain minisuites at all.
First it's your opinion if it's good or not. I am just pointing the different ways they applied it to different gneres. Much of the Abbey Road medleys were recorded as one song and it was McCartneys idea to have them connected.
[ reply to seanseansean ]
To everyone music evolves no one invents genres. The only things for certain is The Beatles started the British Invasion not really a music genre, Classic Rock many now consider it a genre. I agree with The Indian music in the true spirit with rock music. Other than that every thing is just opinions. There is no physical proof who did what first.
Tomorrow Never Knows could be the first alternative rock song but who knows. Who cares who invented Folk Rock, The Beatles, The Byrds and Bob Dylan were a big triangle. The ones who are knocking the Beatles are not musicians or just jealous.
Did Elvis invent rock and roll no, did the Kinks invent hard rock no, is Helter Skelter the first heavy metal song no. Did the Velvet Underground invent, alternative, experimental rock and punk hell no. The Beatles did experimental rock already, The Who and the Kinks could be considered first for being a punk rock first. Except for a few instances no particular artist invents whole genres, just ideas.